kenderstest

And finally we have this....enjoy your day.

Amnesty works, right?

Remember in 1986, when President Reagan signed the Immigration and Reform Control Act? The one time amnesty that was supposed to increase enforcment and reduce illegal immigtaion?

Yeah, THAT ONE?????

Well, for a boots on the ground perspective from the guys that fight this battle every damned day on the front frickin line, go read this ariticle. It is also linked in the title.

From that article:

"Every day that President Bush and the Senate hold real border security hostage to their misguided amnesty program, thousands upon thousands of illegal aliens continue to flood into the country," said the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) Local 2544 in Arizona. "Make no mistake, most of them get by us. We are losing this war, and it's not even close."

The Tucson chapter is the NBPC's largest. The union represents the agency's 10,000 nonsupervisory agents. More than half of the 1.15 million illegal aliens apprehended last year by the agency were detained in the Tucson sector.

A flood of illegal aliens into the United States has impacted and, in many cases, overwhelmed schools, health care, the environment and the criminal justice system, veteran Border Patrol agents and supervisors in Arizona told The Washington Times.

Go read the rest of it.

And now for someting completely different, may I present you with the comedic stylings of Al? Al is a first generation Moron, and is active in the field of Idiocy, and his favorite hobbies are drooling on himself while huffing under the stairs and babbling incoherently while begging on freeway offramps.

I received an email from Al, and in it he was making the very stupifying point that....well, sit back and take a look, but just don't come drooling to me when your IQ drops trying to decipher if someone this plain stupid can masticate and ambulate concurrently.

Al's Original Email Points, and my response, (edited for highlights)

You see it everyday, when FOX, MSNBC, CNN, your local affiliates...run video of immigrants crossing the border....how....

It is "suspension of disbelief," because you actually see it happening, but you don't want to... [or are incapable - due to your "clouded" racism- to] see reality....

You see it, yet they tell you "we need fences"...and you believe and go against yoru logic, and swallow the bad rhetoric, the bias hype, the racist vision of stopping immigrants with fences...

BUT, you are actually seeing fences that don't work...wake up...I said...FOX, MSNBC, CNN and your local ABC, NBC, CBS affiliates actually are showing you immigrants crossing through, around, under, and over all these fences ...and you still insist that a "border fence" is the answer....dah!!!!

Guess what, your a racists....you have "suspended your disbelief"....you have stopped believing what you actually are witnessing, seeing, and experiencing...

The 911 hijackers came through the Canadian border, the "millenium bomber" came through the Washington state border from Canada...to bomb LAX...remember that one?

The Canadian border is better suited for "fencing," and sensor use, because it is less distance to cover...then the Mexican border....and if your going to throw money, throw less money at the Canadian border then the Mexican border...if your going to test a theory...don't spend so much taxpayer money...on a losing proposition...building a fence along the Mexican border

terrorists came in through Canada not Mexico, it has less border to guard, and therefore would cost less then along the Mexican border...

OK, before we go any further, let's recap. Al says if you see people going over, through or under the fence at the border, and say "We need a bigger fence" then you have "suspended your disbelief". Al also states that the Mexican border is longer than the Canadian border so we should build a fence their first. I didn't bother telling Al that it isn't Canada that is flooding us with their low wage and low skill workers.

Al, the Mexican border is 1,951 miles long, (3,141 km), while the Canadian border is 5,525 miles long (8,891 km), which makes the Canadian border about 2.8 times as long.

The group that attacked on 9/11 came in on visas and over stayed them. They came her legally, but didn't stay legally.

These facts make your claim "terrorists came in through Canada not Mexico, it has less border to guard, and therefore would cost less then along the Mexican border..." specious and easily refuted and does not help the cause when you spread dis-information.

At this point I am being nice, as I use this list for intel....or at least I did...if Al reads this they may take me off of the mailing list.

Kender,
You are sharp as ever, but you will admit, they came in through CANADA and not MEXICO...now tell me about the "suspension of disbelief"...do you believe the medias film and video actually tell you that "fences " are not, and have never been a good solution...???
Thanks for noticing my errors and flaws, and I hope it gets more people to respond....

So far Al is being nice also....but I keep wondering if if that last line actually meant that he was putting out the wrong information in the hopes of getting more of a response?

Al, I don't believe that the current fences can keep out an epileptic parapalegic with crossed eyes and a bad sense of direction, much less a determined person that can walk and scale fences, but the current plan from www.weneedafence.com would make getting over or under it much, much harder.

The 9/11 crew may have come in through Canada, but they came in on Visa's, and I recall a couple of them came in directly from a Middle Eastern country, and it becomes a moot point of where they came in, as they came in legally, but becomes a valid argument for shoring up security and monitoring of guests with visas, as they illegally overstayed their visas, becoming lawbreakers.

Ok, here's where Al starts huffin....

So your defference with my comment, is that today's fences don't work, and video and film shown on media outlets prove that...yet you think that making it much harder will solve the "porous fence" problem....otherwise known as "throw and waste more money" given to no-bid cronys that will probably kick it back to the Repugs...for their Nov 2006 campaigns....????

Suspension of Disbelief - please define it in your own words...so that I can understand why you do not BELIEVE in it as a means to frame thinking...???

There are plenty that come in through Mexico with Visas and then overstay....also...thus becoming illegal at a later time, much as the Canadian 911 hijackers...so what is your point....???

I am leaving out all of the screed about poppy fields, Bush financing 9/11 and "framed intelligence"...

The case of "suspension of disbelief" (whatever that is...I think it means living in reality-ED) cannot be made for one simple reason. There is no reason to believe that a properly constructed and patrolled fence would not be effective and cut down on how may people come across it.

Suspension of disbelief, in this case, could be made if the video were shown and the call to replace the fence that people are running through were simply to replace it with the same fence. That is not the case so suspension of belief does not apply. Saying "Wow, they cut a hole in the chain link fence so go fix the fence and that will fix the problem" would be a suspension of disbelief. Saying "wow, they cut a hole in the chain link fence so let's build a 20 foot high wall and patrol it" is not suspension of disbelief, it is a solution.

Does that make sense?

Does that make sense indeed......

To "suspend" ones ability to "disbelieve"...is my take...one stops NOT Believing in reality....or logic....
To be watching fences being crossed at will, by what ever method...and then be told that we need to build more, bigger, wider, stronger...is to "not believe" that fences are not solutions....

For instance..."fences cannot stop AVian Flu"...or small pox, or a river changing it's course....
That is to say...as I review your words....people crossing a bridge over water, can be stopped by building a higher walled, and patroled bridge....or as the French believed...a "margino line" of defense is the end all of the Nazis incurring into France....it was bigger, taller, stronger, and manned....

What did the Nazi's do....avoided it altogether....went around it, went over it, went through it....too...did it keep the Germans out because they threw more money at it....NO

If you build a fence, that doesn't mean that immigrants will come to, or use the fence...when your neighbor wants to see you, he avoids the fence and goes to the front door, a window, or another edge of the backyard....YES....agree....

Consider this...what if immigrants took a Pacific or Atlantic cruise to get to Canada and then came through that northern way....what good is the fence then....all alone by itself in the Mexican border....NOT GOOD at all...

Al really went off on a bit of a tangent there, didn't he?
To "suspend" ones ability to "disbelieve" one stops NOT Believing in reality....or logic.... If one stops NOT believing in reality, that means they are now believing in reality, but when one looks at reality, and believes that a bigger fence WON'T stop people, are they living in reality? Hell no....and that whole "take a cruise to Canada to sneak into the U.S.? Is that fricking COMEDY or what???

Now, here's the rest of the conversation, so far.

Am I to understand that you believe "To be watching fences being crossed at will, by what ever method...and then be told that we need to build more, bigger, wider, stronger...is to "not believe" that fences are not solutions...."
IT IS TO BELIEVE THAT FENCES ARE THE ANSWER, THE SOLUTION, AS YOU ARE IN VISUAL EVIDENCE BY VIEWING THESE VIDEO AND FILM REPRESENTATIONS...THAT - PEOPLE WILL CROSS, AT WILL BY WHAT EVER METHOD, AND BUILDING MORE ARE NOT A SOLUTION OR ANSWER...BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU - HAVE "SUSPENDED YOUR "DISBELIEF" OF WHAT REALITY YOU ARE WITNESSING

Are you saying that if I see someone hop a fence, and I say "Build a bigger fence" that I DO NOT believe that a bigger fence would work? That is exactly what you have said.

YES, EVERY HEAR OF "POLE VAULTING"...AIRPLANES, HELICOPTERS, - ALL UNDER RADAR, AND OF COURSE TUNNELS...??

Fences are not designed to keep out avian flu, as that comes fom birds, and birds fly. Fences also work poorly against gophers and others creatures that burrow. So that is a moot point.

THEN WHY ARE MEDICAL CENTERS BUILT AT BORDERS TO CHECK HUMANS FOR DISEASES...IF NOT TO KEEP DISEASES OUT, THE PROBLEM HERE IS IN DESIGN...

BUT STILL UNDERSTAND THAT FENCES CANNOT KEEP EVERYONE, EVERYTHING, OR ANYTHING FROM CROSSING...YOU MAKE MY ARGUMENT WHEN YOU STATE THAT "FENCES ALSO WORK POORLY AGAINST GOPHERS AND OTHER CREATURES THAT BURROW"...

UNDERSTAND THAT HUMANS BURROW ALSO...THAT'S MY POINT

So now Al is saying that people burrow (true, but it's rare), and someone should remind him that it is impossible to check poeople for disease when they SNEAK IN....oh, and don't forget the pole vaulting that will suddenly commence with a larger fence....anything to get to the good ol' U.S.of A.

As for the Nazis and the Maginot Line, it was a static barrier, much like a fence, however it was not a complete barrier, and the Nazis did an end run around it and came in throught the back door. They didn't go over it....

KENDER, YOU CONTINUE TO "SUSPEND YOUR ABILITY TO ' DISBELIEVE' "...

Yes Al, I have suspended my "ability to disbelieve"....in other words, I no longer have the ability to DISBELIEVE something......Looking at a fence that people are jumping over, and thinking that a bigger fence would stop that nonsense is simply common sense.....looking at that same situation, and thinking "Wow, those people can jump fences, so fences dont' work" is actually a stupid way to look at it.

Al goes on to add in these gems:

EVERY HEAR OF "LAWS ARE MADE TO BE BROKEN"...

BUT, ARGUE THIS...."WHY NOT BUILD A CANADIAN FENCE THEN...." AS AN EXPERIEMENT SUCH AS THE MEXICAN FENCE PROJECT IS, THAT WILL FAIL....A CANADIAN FENCE WOULD COST LESS....

HOWEVER, A MORE ENLIGHTENED VIEW AND "OUTSIDE THE BOX" THINKING WOULD.. - TAKE A CRUISE FOR LESS MONEY, AND WITH MORE GAIN IN FINANCIAL REMUNERATION....AND AVOID HAVING TO CLIMB, DIG, OR GO THROUGH PHYSICAL BARRIERS...

And this is where this exchange stopped. Al's "laws are made to be broken" comment really pissed me off. It is the absolute moral corruption of the culture south of the border epitomized by Al's comment on law that is a hallmark of why Mexico is broken, and shall remain that way.

Go take a cruise Al...