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8:54 AM | 
Posted by
kender
I simply cannot believe this!
While talking to a friend of mine the other day about the state of affairs in the world in general, and the war in Iraq in particular, I was astounded to learn how much she simply didn't know about what is going on in the world.
First some background. This friend is someone I admire....alot. She is intelligent, talented, ambitious, dedicated to her vision, and receiving her masters degree in her chosen field from a prestigious university. She completely rocks and I am proud to call her friend.
However, being in college she has the luxury of a very liberal view of the world. I say luxury because I believe it is a luxury to be able to sit back with a liberal world view and TSK TSK at the war and Americas policies in general. Once most people get to the real world their eyes open up and reality hits them, and most people realize how the world works and drift away from a hardline liberal view. I believe it was Churchill that said, "Everyone is a liberal at 20, and a conserative at 40." I may have paraphrased that but the point remains.
Speaking of that, back on point. My friend backed Kerry, and despises Bush, and doesn't understand why we are at war, or what the consequences would be if we pulled out now. She was completely unaware of so much history...of the fact that a country called Palestine has never existed...of the fact that islamic factions are slowly taking over Europe...of the murder of Theo Van Gogh and the causes that led to it and the backlash that has arisen from it...nor was she aware of the corrupt food-for-oil program and the fact that france, Germany and Russia were all in on that and opposed us at every turn because of financial concerns.
Her only argument was "I don't think it's right that we are killing innocent people in Iraq." I don't like that fact either. Perhaps we are creating 2 more terrorists for each one we kill. Eventually though the word will get out that the propaganda the islamic schools feed their children is false. Propaganda such as the jews caused 9-11 and all the jewish people were gone from the building when the planes hit. Propaganda that the U.S. is on a holy crusade with the goal of wiping out muslims.
It scares me to think that alot of these kids in college that were, (are) so rabidly anti-Bush could know so little about why America is following the course laid out now, by history and current events, and why we must stay that course, not only for the betterment of America, but the betterment of the world.
On the other hand, I sure am glad that the huge turnout of college kids swearing to vote for kerry never materialized.
So my hearty thanks to all those college kids that were going to "Rock The Vote"....thanks for sleeping in and not voting. Your blessed laziness may save us yet.
While talking to a friend of mine the other day about the state of affairs in the world in general, and the war in Iraq in particular, I was astounded to learn how much she simply didn't know about what is going on in the world.
First some background. This friend is someone I admire....alot. She is intelligent, talented, ambitious, dedicated to her vision, and receiving her masters degree in her chosen field from a prestigious university. She completely rocks and I am proud to call her friend.
However, being in college she has the luxury of a very liberal view of the world. I say luxury because I believe it is a luxury to be able to sit back with a liberal world view and TSK TSK at the war and Americas policies in general. Once most people get to the real world their eyes open up and reality hits them, and most people realize how the world works and drift away from a hardline liberal view. I believe it was Churchill that said, "Everyone is a liberal at 20, and a conserative at 40." I may have paraphrased that but the point remains.
Speaking of that, back on point. My friend backed Kerry, and despises Bush, and doesn't understand why we are at war, or what the consequences would be if we pulled out now. She was completely unaware of so much history...of the fact that a country called Palestine has never existed...of the fact that islamic factions are slowly taking over Europe...of the murder of Theo Van Gogh and the causes that led to it and the backlash that has arisen from it...nor was she aware of the corrupt food-for-oil program and the fact that france, Germany and Russia were all in on that and opposed us at every turn because of financial concerns.
Her only argument was "I don't think it's right that we are killing innocent people in Iraq." I don't like that fact either. Perhaps we are creating 2 more terrorists for each one we kill. Eventually though the word will get out that the propaganda the islamic schools feed their children is false. Propaganda such as the jews caused 9-11 and all the jewish people were gone from the building when the planes hit. Propaganda that the U.S. is on a holy crusade with the goal of wiping out muslims.
It scares me to think that alot of these kids in college that were, (are) so rabidly anti-Bush could know so little about why America is following the course laid out now, by history and current events, and why we must stay that course, not only for the betterment of America, but the betterment of the world.
On the other hand, I sure am glad that the huge turnout of college kids swearing to vote for kerry never materialized.
So my hearty thanks to all those college kids that were going to "Rock The Vote"....thanks for sleeping in and not voting. Your blessed laziness may save us yet.
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18 comments:
First - I bothered to read your really long post from a couple days ago, are you going to bother to respond?
Second, do you have any numbers to back up your assertions that college students did not turn out to vote? I heard that it was record voting from both sides and that republicans in general simply showed up more (obviously), however, this does not mean the college students did not show up. Believe it or not, there are plenty of republican students too.
Also, how do you know what is happening in Europe? Just because there are a lot more 'brown skinned' people in Europe, that means that "Islamic factions are slowly taking over Europe"? This is quite silly and unsupported. Europe becoming more diverse as Middle Eastern people move there may simply mean that people are moving there for opportunities that they don't get in their homeland. This would be similar to saying that Mexican factions are taking over here in the States just because there are more of them.
By the way, in my own experience, for every one uneducated, ignorant Democrat that I meet, I meet at least 2 uneducated, ignorant Republicans. I have met far more Republicans who 'believe' in Bush without knowing anything than Democrats who were completely ignorant.
response forthcoming.....
O.K. Kraftyone...here is your response to your comment on this post. I can't find the link showing the numbers now, however have found this: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/04/election.reaction/
It was well known a few days after the election that the much anticipated surge in first time voters, the majority of them college students, and the vast majority of those for Kerry, never materialized. I have quite a few friends in college, some of them are even able to counter my arguments. However the vast majority of them cannot, simply parroting what they hear in class from their professors. The American college system is, for the most part, a bastion of liberalism. The ratio of Bush to Kerry supporters on college campuses is very disparate, being 2-1 at the 2 schools where I did my very unscientific and small poll.
As to how I know what is going on in Europe: First off, I read....alot. I follow news from many countries and stay up on national events from around the globe. Secondly, I have many friends from quite a few countries, in addition to having friends and family that travel quite a bit. If you read the links from the previous post you commented on, you would have read about dhimmitude. Dhimmitude is the institutionalized oppresion of non-muslims in a muslim society. For more on that go here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-yeor100902.asp
I am not basing anything on the skin color of people....I know a few white muslims. Another question I want to pose for you.....you stated "Eastern people move there may simply mean that people are moving there for opportunities that they don't get in their homeland."
Why, I ask you, if these people are moving to Europe for these opportunities why aren't these opportunities available in their home countries? Could it be because a radical islamic regime is running their homeland? Could be.
As to your comment about Mexican factions taking over here simply because they are growing in number, that is a patently stupid statement.
To begin with, I live around L.A. and have alot of mexican friends. Hell, I even have mexican family. I have lived in Mexico, and worked there in fact, and wouldn't have a problem with the mexican people wanting back land that was once theirs. Not that they will get it back, I just don't have a problem with them wanting it. For starters, they wouldn't come here and expect me to live under their view of the world and religion, killing me when I refused to follow their ways.
Finally, you say you meet two uneducated republicans for every uneducated democrat you meet. Well, this one is 'uneducated', not holding a degree, however I am far from ignorant, especially on this topic.
Your turn.
BTW KraftyOne...are you saying that people that voted for kerry are more 'educated'? Almost 90% of "african-americans' voted for kerry.....and there are far fewer 'educated' "african-americans" than there are "caucasians". Just a thought.
Interesting exchange of ideas. Usually by now the person taking the anti conservative side has started name calling, so hats off to you both.
My comment is based around this:
The students were right about Vietnam, who says they aren't right now? Right about Vietnam? History will prove them wrong about Vietnam. Communism had and has to be defeated at any cost. It is responsible for more deaths than any other event in history. Kerry, Jane Fonda, and the other war protesters of their time, committed treasonous acts by giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
The US government is also culpable for not having the backbone to stand its ground and meet its commitments to the South Vietnamese people. We committed to help them to defend themselves. Gave them our word we did. Then our government officials caved in and withdrew, leaving millions to be slaughtered by "the peoples revolution".
Its really no wonder we are loathed in Asia. South Korea has been waiting for us to screw them over for years. Communism is evil. We abandoned an ally and our values over the protests and marches of a bunch of dirty unbathed hippies and their leaders.
And the only students that are right about the war now understand the historical significance of what is going on. They understand what leadership, freedom and liberty are, and are damned proud to be living in an era where this country is finally exhibiting what we are made of. They support the war. They support our country, and they support our troops.
Redneck Guru.....if you are a guru to rednecks, then I am a redneck and damn proud of it. Preach on brot....eeerr...enlighten me oh Sage One. Serious note. My dad lives in AR. Great man and another Patriot that has his head on straight. I bet you two would get along great.
I hope redneck comes back. Maybe he can explain to me why "Communism is evil."
How is Communism evil? Can you tell me how it isn’t?
61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Union
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese
(source is : http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM)
A government that rips away an individual’s basic rights, the right to pursue happiness, the right to own property the right to strive for prosperity. Did you know that mandatory public education was a communist institution? That in communist Russia, it was a felony to school your children at home or to send them to a religious school? The purpose was indoctrination.
Here are some links for you, I assume you are familiar with the Internet.
http://www.rel.ee/eng/communism_crimes.htm details Communist Crimes in the Baltic states.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0674076087/102-3477279-3272148?v=glance A book by a collection of historian detailing the murders through history. To save you the trouble, here is the description:
Communism did kill, Courtois and his fellow historians demonstrate, with ruthless efficiency: 25 million in Russia during the Bolshevik and Stalinist eras, perhaps 65 million in China under the eyes of Mao Zedong, 2 million in Cambodia, millions more Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America--an astonishingly high toll of victims. This freely expressed penchant for homicide, Courtois maintains, was no accident, but an integral trait of a philosophy, and a practical politics, that promised to erase class distinctions by erasing classes and the living humans that populated them. Courtois and his contributors document Communism's crimes in numbing detail, moving from country to country, revolution to revolution. The figures they offer will likely provoke argument, if not among cliometricians then among the ideologically inclined. So, too, will Courtois's suggestion that those who hold Lenin, Trotsky, and Ho Chi Minh in anything other than contempt are dupes, witting or not, of a murderous school of thought--one that, while in retreat around the world, still has many adherents. A thought-provoking work of history and social criticism, The Black Book of Communism fully merits the broadest possible readership and discussion. --Gregory McNamee
Another great article, written by Aleksandr L. Solzhenitsyn
http://www.libertyhaven.com/theoreticalorphilosophicalissues/history/wordswarning.shtml
It is evil on so many levels; I don’t have time to list them all. Maybe if you were to research and tell me where it is good, I can show you the fault in your thinking?
Redneck Guru said it all...I anxiously await your rebuttal with, I imagine, an attempt to show us how capitalism has killed so many people....K1?
HOw can you say that goverments form Germany or France are corrupt? You are talking about the much you read about foreign countries, but I can't believe you do so, because words like this. It's absurd; anyone in the world knows that now, US goverment is one of the most corrupt goverment in the world: even they have promoted a war because economic interest of their leaders. While people like you keep on believing that Iraq war is a war for liberty, all the world will have to suffer the consecuences of those economic wars, while you keep yourselves warm and safe in your country. Believe me, my country have had more victims for decades because terrorism, but that doesn't mean that I must think that war, killing and starving people would be the best way to solve our problems. So, you can look at your own country. Your soldiers have killed thousand of innocent people, have Saddam, but you still in a foggy danger, and the situation in Iraq is even worse than before the war. The problem is that you, north americans have difficulties to think world as a global matter, global war, global terrorism, etc... You thought when Saddam statue was down, war was over... Here in my country, we know that nobody can impose a democracy. Except if you have a too much simple idea of democracy like voting each four years and nothing more. That can only be supported by a remaining military force for years. With Iraq war, we did't get anything but that some rich people get richer. Propaganda is in its algid point these days, specially in the United States, I think.
PD. Sorry for my english, I read a lot of english stuff, but i usually don´t express myself in your language, so, again, i'm sorry for errors
And what are you reading Miguel? Perhaps you have heard of the food-for-oil program? And just where do you live? If you live in one of those countries in Europe that have a growing number of Islamic immigrants then perhaps you should read Bat Yeor. Bat Yeor is an author, and has coined the word "dhimmitude". You would probably do well to learn that word my friend. If you are in Spain, you are probably going to live it within 20 years.
Miguel is on crack. We sit in out safe country, Miguel because our ancestors fought and died for it. We are a nation of victors, and one of the spoils of victory is security and prosperity. If you want to make your country better, fight and die for it to be better.
Since we don't know where you live, its hard to say if your country is a shithole totalitarian dictatorship or a shithole socialist "democracy". From the sounds of it, whichever it is, your government doesn't sound like it is worth your time if it can't at the least protect your people.
You are right, you can't force a democracy. The truth is it takes a special breed of citizen to stand up when the opportunity presents itself and fight for those freedoms. Look at the people in the Ukraine calling BS over that election, standing up to the old guard. Some citizens aren't ready for democracy, others wouldn't recognize the opportunity to fight for one if it kicked them in the head.
Everyone deserves freedom. America leads the way. We are a nation of winners, Miguel, and we do our damndest to help other countrys in the workd that need it. We don't do it because other shithole countrys will complain and do everything they can to undermine it, we do it because it is the right thing to do.
The government of France is corrupt, spineless and has no morals. The people in Spain turned cowards when the terrorists hit and voted out a government that vowed to fight terrorism.
You are either with US or you are against us. And you should be able to look back through all of history for the outcome of those that have stood against us.
Peace through victory.
*sniff*...(Battle Hymn of The Republic playing in background)....I have rarely heard anything more true. Glory, Glory Hallelujah.....Guru....you are dead on!
Wow! Sorry I'm late! As for the quotes and definitions I have heard.....Churchill said "If at 20 your not a liberal then you have no heart, if at 40 your not a conservative, you have no brain"
Now onto the comment about America being the biggest terrorist because of our actions in Japan at the end of WWII. You are wrong. Were we fighting for political reasons? No we were fighting because we were attacked. Were we fighting for ideological reasons? If freedom is ideological , yes, if revenge is ideological, yes, if self defense is ideological, yes, but I remind you .....THEY ATTACKED US.... Did we drop the bomb on them for religious reasons? No. As a matter of fact it has been argued that utilizing atomic weapons probably saved lifes in the long run.
The rest of this discussion has been great.
Dan from Chapel Hill is someone I debate all the time, he likes conservatives to visit his site. I prefer liberals ignore mine.
A couple things...
I do understand that we have never had anything but evil communistic governments. However, we've also never had true communism (I'm not, by the way, a proponent of communism). So far (and for the foreseable future) we have only ever had Communistic Dictatorships. Anyway, I may not have been clear before, but my point was simply that the IDEA of communism is not inherently evil.
As far as the WWII atomic bomb comments... I am aware that it may have saved more lives than it took. My point was that it was an attack against average, non-military citizens, in response to attacks against military targets. I didn't even say that it was the wrong thing to do. I just said that it meets the criteria of being terrorism and so therefore we hold the record for the largest sigle terrorist act in history.
We must agree to disagree. I feel that attacking an enemies economic base is a legitamate target, the nazis sent V-1 and V-2 rockets into Lonndon, the allies carpet bombed German cities etc....plus, I think the crusaders may have killed more civilians taking Jerusalum in the first crusade than we did with atomic weapons in Japan, but I could be wrong.
Richard...are you sure? Because that is exactly what the terrorists did on 9/11 at the WTC...they "attack(ed) an enemies economic base"...and...it worked (sorta).
Just wanted to make sure that was a statement you were comfortable making because it legitimizes the terrorist actions.
Also, I'm sure that there were more civilian deaths in other wars (the Crusades is a good example). I was just talking about single incidents (one day) against civilians.
Krafty:
Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
Inherently that sytem is evil. It destrots the conceot if the individual, and removes all incentive for personal success.
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